Sorry for the out-of-season post. I'd like to address the unacceptable remarks that have emerged from my co-developer PurityGuy's past. I won't speak for him. This is his announcement:
I've always wanted DoL to be a safe place for everyone. It's written into the game's DNA, and PurityGuy's remarks contradict this basic principle.
That said, his past remarks do not justify the coordinated attempt to have him fired from his real life job. This was not done in good faith. His employers saw offending images before even I did. He has decided to take a break from development.
Sorry for the near-silence on this over the last week. A lot has been happening, and we didn't want to act rashly. It's important we get this right.
I'd also like to address the trouble with moderation on the Discord server and subreddit. I'm no good at moderating, and I've always had this idea that communities could basically elect their moderators, and sort of manage themselves. I see now that I'll need to take a more active role, if there are going to be official DoL communities at all.
As for DoL itself, next update I'd like to build on the previous two updates, fleshing out Avery's mansion and polishing Gwylan. I'm also going to get more involved with managing contributions. I'm sure I'll sneak some time in for other additions, though.
Thanks everyone. Sorry if I haven't caught up to your comment under the last post yet. It's been busy.
I'm a bit sad to hear this. This whole thing wasn't moral justice, just targeted harassment at an easy victim. I hope Puri doesn't grow to hate this community. I find his contributions positively delightful, and hope he returns once the dust has settled.
ReplyDeletePuri's been targeted by harassment for a long time. I agree the people doing so aren't interested in moral justice.
DeleteI've actually seen similar situations in other games. In my experience, it seems like they're people who don't even give a damn about the games. They just want to be superior and leave as soon as either the law gets involved, they get what they want, or they face some other kind of consequences.
DeleteAgreed. These kinds of people seem to think of themselves as some kind of "holier-than-thou" moral pariahs who think its their job to moral police everyone else in search of non-existent "moral justice."
DeleteTarget harrassment at an easy victim? Not only is puri a grown man who was spouting racial slurs and racist remarks left and right but he did not care until more people started talking about it, hes already an adult and knows his actions have consequences and he had a lot of time to change but despite that he didnt, not until the very end (which im sure hes still the same and is just playing the victim so people feel bad for him), and Vrel has been allowing this kind of behavior for a long time as well, he didnt care about one of the mods getting harrassed constantly until everyone, including puri himself were telling him to please do something about it. Both vrel and puri are in the wrong
Delete19:54 anon - And you aren't? You guys fucking doxxed someone for crying out loud!! Sure, we might be saying some questionable things, but at least we're not actually going out and committing crimes + ruining peoples' irl lives - that's all on you.
DeleteRespectfully, how is saying a racial slur in a (mostly) anonymous online community anywhere near as bad as doxxing someone (an actual CRIME btw that ruins people's lives and puts them in irl dangerous situations)?
DeleteLooks like I wasnt the only target then, had a bad feeling after the comments that were said about myself. A shame in the end, and 4chan is not even the worst place on the internet, as much as its a mixed bag. As bad as they look, Purity's comments are mild compared to what others have said, clearly were just banter and not targeting anyone directly. Those attempting to take his job away from him should be punished for their actions.
ReplyDeleteJust because someone said some naughty words, doesnt mean that it was making the place unsafe. It is actions that can make something safe/unsafe.
- LS
P.S Sorry for leaving as fast as I did, it was just too much in the end.
I'm sorry you were targeted as well. It's not acceptable.
DeleteP.S It's okay. I'm happy to see you here. Thank you for all you've done.
I’m sorry to hear this. Honestly, I’m a little enraged at the fandom right now. This game, as well as the discord and blogspot dedicated to it, were supposed to serve as safe spaces for people to engage in content that wouldn’t be safe in a real world environment. As such, I think it goes without saying that any kind of attempts at moral policing or censoring speech ultimately do more harm than good.
ReplyDeleteThese people who seem to think of themselves as some kind of moral pariah seeking moral justice don’t seem to realize that really all they’re doing is causing harm, in the long run of things.
We’re all adults here. We’re all aware of real world moral obligations and duties. Choosing to immerse ourselves in fantasies wherein we can act out our most forbidden desires says nothing about who we are as an actual person. People have always been drawn to the forbidden since time immemorial. Nobody here wants to get raped irl even if it is a kink when engaging in fictional works. Nobody here has fucked a dog, or stolen priceless antiques & valuables, or been sold as a cow to some sketchy underground farmer. It’s fiction. And it’s safe. And by destroying it, you’re destroying a previously safe, warm community.
I’m sad to see that it’s come to this and you’ve had to come and say something about it. I’m sorry that you have to say sorry.
I hope you’re doing ok right now. If you need to take a break from the game or replying to comments, just know that you are entitled to do so and more than deserving of it, if that is what you so choose.
I truly hope to see DoL continue on unimpeded, but I understand if you’re not able to do so. Take care, we’ll always be here for you if you need us.
Honestly, this has all gotten to the point where I think you might very well have to outright tell people that this is a dark game and, as such, discussions surrounding it will be dark. Free speech has always been a key tenet in DoL spaces and I think it would be worth mentioning that any kind of moral policing/virtue signalling will result in getting blocked or banned. Maybe it's time to shut down the discord server too. Discord is cool, but man, is it a great way to fuel hatred and fester resentment. It's just not worth it imo. Whatever decision you do end up making, though, I want you to know that you have my full support regardless of what that decision might be! Wishing you all the best!
ReplyDelete>any kind of moral policing/virtue signalling will result in getting blocked or banned
DeleteWhat a great way to just brush any hateful, racist, sexist, or otherwise concerning talk under the rug! No, lesbian/black person/trans person, YOU'RE in the wrong, you're a moral police/virtual signalling, cause you can't take a joke, so BANNED!
Like come on my guy. You can't have a limitless, open port for everybody. Just because a game is sexually dark, anything can fly? There are heavy discussions now about trans rep in this game, abortion stuff, lesbian stuff (see how virginities are only taken penetratively), but with your suggestion it can all be dismissed cause 'lol dark jokes'
Nothing good ever comes out of social media, so that sounds like a logical step
Delete@Nas I think you are deeply misunderstanding the core nature of this work. It is not just a “sexually dark” game - it’s a game that deals specifically with the idea of being stuck in a world that is against you and enduring unending abuse. Abuse that, in real life, would under no circumstances be tolerated in any way.
DeleteThis is a safe place to explore forbidden desires and secret fantasies without real world consequences. Like the whole point of this game is literally fetishizing abuse, what about that do you not understand??
Like, you say it’s sexist/transphobic/racist but… that’s kinda the whole point? It gives people a safe outlet to explore this kind of dark content. In reality, I’m not gonna walk around wearing skimpy clothes hoping that I’m going to get gangraped by a bunch of men or that some mutant wolf will knock me up and force me to bear his children. That would be a literal nightmare irl. But in fantasy scenarios like this one, it’s kind of a huge turn on - precisely because it’s forbidden and humans are naturally drawn to the forbidden.
We don’t go after movie directors for making slasher films with serial killers or the people who enjoy those movies and consider it “fun,” so why would you do it here, huh?
All of you people think you’re some kind of virtuous saint - really, you’re all just moralistic pedants and big, fat hypocrites.
You go after us saying that we’re “harming others” by making dark jokes or sexist comments, but in reality, none of that has had any real actual impact on anyone irl (+ nobody meant any of it). Your guys’ behaviour, however? You literally fucking doxxed someone. I don’t think I have to explain just why and how that’s so fucking terrible, do I? Then again, given how ignorant you all seem, perhaps I do…
Sad to hear this :(
ReplyDeleteIt's a little parasocial of me, I suppose, but I truly do genuinely like you and Puri as people and am sad to see you take so much criticism. The two of you have always been delights to interact with and I hope Puri's eventually able to come back.
No I have to side with Purityguy. We are all not perfect and I am not going to walk on egg shells because some people are overly sensitive willing to hunt your entire Internet footprint. It's people like this is why the UK is overly censored right now. Grow up
ReplyDeleteCalling people who have been personally hurt by that racial slur in real life "overly sensitive" for being upset that a developer, whose game they enjoyed, used it casually just shows how little you understand. He admitted himself that it was not right to ever say that slur, yet people like you keep defending the usage of it. Places like the UK are overly censored because of the rise of fascism, not because people are able to call out others for using slurs. If you think people who are rightfully upset are the problem, YOU are the one who needs to grow up. Go pick up a book, learn about history. You clearly fail to comprehend that slurs are not just words, and if we all aren't perfect, we can all at least try to understand one another and that includes how those affected feel about Purity. It's not "walking on eggshells", it's clear cut. If you cannot reclaim a slur, don't use it. You're free to do as you please, but trying to paint everyone else as the problem is why fascism has risen in the UK and everywhere else, since you care so much about that to even try to connect these two vastly different issues.
DeleteNot everyone calling him out has been reasonable, and some have definitely said and did horrible things, including reaching out to his job. No one should ever be doxxed, I agree on this. However, no side is all good or all bad and categorizing them as such won't get anyone anywhere. Continuing to fight is not my intention, so I hope you stop and think if you truly believe not everyone is perfect and people can change.
I agree with you for the most part, but there is something I would care to address.
DeleteYou mention people who have been personally hurt by racial slurs irl - which is a very, very different situation than some random guy on the internet just casually throwing it out there. If someone goes up to you irl and makes a hurtful remark or slur about a minority group you're a part of, that is very much intentional and harmful, with real life consequences. Such a thing suggests that the person has thought about it, likely genuinely believes it, and is saying it with malicious intent. Again, that's really different from the current scenario for a multitude of reasons, the first and foremost of which being that given the anonymous nature of this situation, none of it is really targeted or said with intent to harm in mind - because you have no idea who's on the other side of that screen. There also aren't any real world consequences of such a thing whereas if you were to do that irl, you risk putting that person in harm's way. Online, that's not the case though. Is it immature and insensitive? Absolutely. But hateful and harmful? Almost certainly not.
If somebody were to go up to me and call me "retarded" online I might be a little confused, but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they are specifically attacking me because I'm neurodivergent. I wouldn't even assume they were making fun of that group as a whole, because, again, my identity is unknown to them. They have no idea who I am, so the chance of them purposely making a targeted attack on me is virtually 0.
In real life, that's different; but this isn't real life. And I think it's important that we recognize that when situations like this arise.
Yeah, I'm gonna continue to stand with Purityguy. These people are fucking crazy.
ReplyDeleteLike, with all due respect, how the FUCK do you interpret someone essentially saying "War is bad and human lives don't deserve to be treated as means to an end" to "I am a nazi and wish to murder jews" or "I am a zionist"??
And for that matter, it's pretty blatantly obvious that none of these uneducated miscreants even know what a zionist or zionism even is. History major w/ English minor here btw. Zionism was the movement for the establishment and development of a homeland for the Jewish people in the biblical land of Israel. Nowadays, the term means anyone who who believes that Jews deserve their own homeland after quite literally being massacred in the worst genocide the world has seen. So basically, if you're a decent person then you're a zionist.
I've always been of the mind that politics should be kept separate from entertainment media, but now that that line's been crossed, there's nothing left to stop me lmfao.
Selective bias is how (psychology nerd here). They see someone they don't like, so they'll take anything that even vaguely resembles evidence and don't think more about it. Same reason why conspiracy theories stick. Infuriating as hell, but you can't really do anything except wait for them to piss off. Which makes it more infuriating.
DeleteThe issue with establishing a land for Israelis is due to WHERE they decided to occupy. They can have their own land, but to OCCUPY a land that already belonged to the Palestinians and even kicking them out and shoving them further and further away is why Zionism has its reputation now. If you can mention the genocide against the Jewish people, you can mention the genocide against Palestinians that is being committed RIGHT NOW by Israel. Or is that not considered a genocide to you?
DeleteIf you respond mentioning Hamas or October 7th, you are being biased and I will not bother continuing this conversation. If you feel the need to see proof, there are a vast majority of articles covering the long occupation of Palestine. As a History major though, surely you have covered this topic as well though?
If you knew anything about international law, then you'd know that the current Israel's actions in the ongoing "Palestine vs. Israel" conflict do not qualify as genocide, nor are they considered as such. The 1948 Genocide Convention defines genocide as:
Delete"[A]ny of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
This is important because it clearly outlines that in order for the above actions to be considered genocide, there MUST be evidence that the perpetrators had intent to destroy a certain ethnic/cultural/religious group. While Israel's recent actions have been condemnable, they do not come from a place of genocidal intentions - they come from a mindset of winning this war, no matter the cost. If Hamas were to surrender today, Israel would cease the killing and the warfare because their goal would be achieved. In true genocides, that's not the case, because destroying the group in question is the means and the end, in and of itself.
I would urge you to be very, very cautious when throwing out terms like "genocide" that have a clear, well-defined, and specific meaning, and be sure to look up what they actually mean and when such a term is employable. I'd also suggest reading up a little more on International Law as you don't seem to be very well versed in it at the moment.
As for this idea of me needing to see proof and scholarly articles about how and why Palestine has been occupied, I'm not sure why you suggested that since I don't believe I ever said anything along the lines of "Israel is not/has not occupied Palestine." While this isn't my specific academic field, I did take some courses pertaining to the matter during my second year of undergrad. So, yes, I am well aware. What I will say, though, is this: there is a lot more to that history than you know. Jewish presence in what is now modern-day Palestine dates back approximately 3,000-4,000 years ago. Of course, much of that time was on and off as the region was frequently being conquered and reconquered back in those days, but they did nonetheless maintain a steady presence in the area throughout the ages. So suggesting that they just came in out of nowhere one day and kicked out the Palestinians is a little misleading, to say the least. Most modern-day Palestinians actually share ancestry with their Israeli counterparts! The genetic similarities between the two groups is almost eerie, as a matter of fact.
Now, that's not to say that the solution devised after WW2 was in any way fair to the Palestinians, because it wasn't, end of story. You're absolutely correct there and I fully agree with you there. Of course, that doesn't make Hamas' actions acceptable, but that's another can of worms for another day.
In the end though, none of what you said changes the fact that I was originally trying to make: people are using the terms "zionist" and "zionism" incorrectly lol. So I'm not really sure why we're having this discussion. But I figure it's never a bad time for a quick, impromptu history lesson, so here ya go!
that's why you shouldn't indulge moralists to begin with. what a nothing burger.
ReplyDeleteThe whole situation is sad but PurityGuy has always been messy, and the community being exasperated with him doesn't just stem from this recent issue, and I know you know that too Vrel. Doxxing is obviously horrible, but he still needs to pull himself together since he's honestly a ticking time bomb. I understand that he plays an important role in developing your game but I hope you'd be more firm with PurityGuy, Vrel. If not this cycle will just continue; PurityGuy messing up - Community becoming divided - PurityGuy apologizes but damage has been made - You being left to clean up the mess.
ReplyDelete...And that's why he's taking a break, numbskull. He hasn't done any damage in years, and suddenly, he's targeted for past actions he regrets. And then people like you come along and act like he has to be punished for something he has quit since an eternity ago. So shut up and read, and most importantly think, before you type.
Deletei'm not the anon you replied to and i fully support purityguy having a chance to redeem himself but you're clearly biased if you genuinely think "he hasn't done any damage in years" you can defend someone and still hold them accountable, it's not mutually exclusive. calling someone a numbskull while preaching about targeted harassment is also not it
DeleteOh, I know I'm a hypocrite. But after the fifth time of going through this routine, I'm not holding my horses to people's fucked up attention seeking. Case is closed, we don't have to keep discussing this, done. Capiche? Also, this shit hits close to home, which is why I'm not as calm as usual.
Deleterespectfully, you should go offline for now if you're aware you're protecting and being a hypocrite. comments here could just be left for vrel to mull over on his own, valid or not. it's natural that people will keep discussing it since actions have consequences whether there's regret or not
Deletei meant projecting
Delete...I'm actually trying to get off this harassment simulator, and I would appreciate it if you didn't keep calling me back, y'know? My heart rate isn't very healthy right now, so I'd appreciate it if we could end this pointless argument at that. Truce?
Delete(Yet another anon)
DeleteSo you aren’t actually fully informed about the specifics beyond what this post selectively brought up, and you consider that justification to constantly sling insults at anyone who brings it up in even the more civilized comments?
Good, I hope your heart rate is unhealthy, maybe it wouldn’t be if you stopped acting like every comment that mentions the situation is somehow coercing you into replying and getting over the top for no reason.
...And that's toxic. I try to stop things from escalating, you start it up again. These insults are targeted specifically at you. Since you apparently can't read—this topic hits close to home, so I'm a bit defensive. Hence my heart rate being unhealthy. I guess you could say it's similar to mild PTSD.
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DeleteWhenever I see a comment from you, Sakura, is it insulting people who do not share your same beliefs or opinions, tell me, does it make you feel better or superior just to hurl insults like a foolish? Please, the situation with PurityGuy is unfair, but racism is racism, people are sensitive and will be offended if you go around blurting out 'slurs'.
DeleteAlthough it should be noted, this got TOO out of control, and the harassment and danger they have been putting PG into is completely despicable, there was no need to dox him, there was no need to send all this to his work, for god's sake, one thing has nothing to do with the other. It was something that could really affect his life, it's something that happened a long time ago, and while the people he talked about SO CARELESSLY, have the right to be offended, to feel the way they do, those who do all of that, they have NO REASON to fall into something so low.
So please, stop talking stupid things and hurling insults just because you feel like it. Respond coherently please, and do not discredit either side. If someone doesn't agree with you, just show your point of view in a respectful way! People have the right to feel, those who were taken as a joke or whose community is offended, because once again, slurs are not a game, there are people, people who feel, people with feelings, it should be noted, them, they feel, I myself am a person of color, because I am not white, but I am not black either, I didn't feel offended, here in my country, Venezuela, we use that kind of language between friends and acquaintances as a joke, but everything differs depending on the culture.
And just as I defend those who were offended I also take into account PurityGuy, because he is also a person who feels, he is human, and humans make mistakes, and although I don't know him, he has his right to redemption and people don't have to bring up in his face at all times of his life something for which he has already apologized, not those who doxed or harassed him unfairly, because we are supposed to be adults and we have to act and face situations with a maturity according to our age.
So having said that, don't take it the wrong way, I agree with you that the treatment and actions taken towards PurityGuy were completely despicable and animalistic, the only thing that stings me was seeing how you hurl insults left and right without putting much argument. Good morning, and I wish you all the best in the comments.
@Glori4 And people are allowed to feel offended. No one’s arguing about that. But if something offends you, then you really ought to just leave because trying to moral police almost always ends up in situations like this where people are doxxed and harassed.
DeleteYou all act as though you’re some kind of untouchable moral pariahs, but really you’re all just disgusting fucking hypocrites. You had the option whether you wanted to engage in a dark 18+ space such as this and you CHOSE to do so. Staying when you are uncomfortable IS YOUR OWN FUCKING FAULT!!!
@12.22 anonymous
DeletePeople came in for the dark 18+ aspect. Not to be hit with 'jokes' of racism/lesbophobia/transphobia! And Vrel and the Mods always go up and down about how this is a safe space to explore dark sex, so why should people take the unrelated bigotry? Hope that helps to clarify!
@12:22 anonymous
DeleteHave some coherence, please. Just a little. If someone messes with you or your people, you're going to react, aren't you? The fact that this is a +18 and dark game does not give the reason or justification to anyone to be a little shit and disgusting bitch, It also doesn't give you the right to want to treat others as you want or insult people who don't fit your standards or don't match your beliefs. Grow the fuck up. I feel like I'm talking to young children with retardation problems, and not even that, because even simple children can better understand the concept of respect.
Vrel, si ves esto, te amo, casate conmigo, me sacaron de quicio, normalmente no soy así. 😭🥀
Delete“If someone messes with you or your people, you’re going to react, aren’t you?”
DeleteAnd then you proceed to imply I have retardation problems… I am an autistic woman, thank you very much! And one that just so happens to have a masters degree and a full time job, thanks again.
But anyway, lemme get this straight:
You’re going after Puri for “attacking” some minority group you are a part of because that’s morally wrong. And then you proceed to go after me and make fun of a minority group I’m a part of.
Seems a little hypocritical, don’t you think?
You guys know the it’s not just a dark sex game, right? Like, it’s a full on dark game that quite literally REVOLVES around fetishized abuse, so I’m not too sure why you’re playing it?
DeleteDid I say autistic at one point? You're bringing your condition to light, when both are two different things, I recommend that you investigate the difference between terms. I only said retarded children because of the way you simply assume that a person who is wrongfully offended should walk away from the game just because others have no moral and decency, just because it's a dark game, doesn't mean, honey, that the people who play it have the right to act, try, or say whatever they want.
DeleteYou don't read, do you? At all times in my first comment I defended both PurityGuy, the way they're treating him for a years-old issue and the way he is being harassed is completely despicable and unreasonable, and then the people he let loose slurs on, because none of the things either 'side' did was right.
Anyone with decency and common sense knows that both things are wrong, and yet everyone launches against a person who has a different opinion at the moment, it was for this reason that I commented in the first place. Sakura was bombing, and insulting, not only this anonymous one, but several others. How annoying people like that. Can't they argue with respect? You looked for me and that's why I've answered you like this, if you're going to answer me, do it coherently, it costs nothing. My goddd.
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DeleteSurely you're aware of the connotations between the word "retarded" and its use as a hateful slur against neurodivergent people...?
DeletePersonally, I take no offence, because at the end of the day, they're all just words are they not? What I DO take offence to, however, is this whole idea of "some minorities are more important than others" which is what you're kinda giving off at the moment. Using racist/transphobic slurs is unacceptable, but it's perfectly fine to use slurs and other demeaning terms targeted towards other minorities? Doesn't really make sense to me.
For the record, I don't have anything against anyone using any such terms. I'm just anti-hypocrites.
This sort of coddling simply reinforces behavior to be brushed off. It's not just Purity Guy to be at fault, but you as well, Vrel. I do not want to stop my support for Degrees of Lewdity, but when you and he have such a big standing and one takes more of an active role within the server and they have abused it, it's frustrating. If rumors are true, he got to pick who were mods and that included his girlfriend. How can anyone even begin to speak their mind when they are the ones who get silenced? Not condemning those who have actually put Purity Guy in danger, but his actions and influence could also be done to those he disagreed with within the server. Never wanted him to step down, only to step back.
ReplyDelete...And you're basing your view on rumors. No matter what, that makes you worse than anyone currently involved. I'd almost like to bet you're among those that spread such rumors and the misinformation mentioned above. It's disrespectful and kills communities like this. So do every one a favor and shut. Up. I hate people like you.
DeleteIf you want to make a claim, get proof, not rumors. Targeted harassment is no joke, and you try to continue it. Grow the fuck up.
DeleteMaybe, you need to grow up. If they were not the developers of the game and just random players, they would have gotten strikes and potentially banned, but since they are, they should just get a slap on the wrist? And what proof do you want? The numerous screenshots already circulating? The people who have expressed being harassed and have shown proof? I hate people like you that are so willfully ignorant, that will cover their ears than face the reality of the situation. Real people are getting hurt, targeted on both sides. Expressing criticism =/= harassment. You don't even know me and you're already thinking that I'm on a hate train because I'm unhappy with things were being run in the server. Get a life.
DeleteYou should get a life. I know I'm a hypocrite, but going after a victim of a literal crime and defending the offenders makes you really bad. Hiding behind anonymity is probably giving you a big head, but imagine someone pulling out a picture of you running a traffic light years ago, and pulling out edited screenshots of your text messages to remove the context, and then try to get you fired for that. And then everyone's suddenly coming after you and telling you to burn in hell. Not so pleasant, is it, kid? But I'll refrain on going further, since it's obvious you just want attention, not to make a point. How fucking messed up, using someone's trauma for attention...
Delete(Different Anon) Sakura, you need to calm down. You are lashing out at people who are politely expressing their concerns. You shouldn't insult and discourage them from speaking just because you disagree.
DeleteOther Anon, if you read my other replies you would know why this pisses me off. Also, that wasn't polite. That was basically saying "Puri deserves what happened to him, and Vrel would too". And I'm tired of having this kind of behavior repeat for the fifth time. Especially since it hits close to home for me and others. Hence why I'd appreciate it it if you let me get back to work instead of constantly calling me back.
Delete[Main Anon] Are you serious? Unlike Purity Guy, I never had the opportunity to say slurs because I've dealt with racism all my life, those 'things that were taken out of context' were actual things he SAID and APOLOGIZED FOR. You purposely ignoring it/defending it is weird. And I literally said I don't condone any of the real harassment he's facing, I want him to be a a better person from this because I really like his work within the community, but I'm not going to treat like the second coming of Christ like YOU ARE.
DeleteMy bad on this one though, I thought condemning meant something else.English isn't my first language, I meant to say condoning.
DeleteIt seems you didn't read the post and mixing up my message. The out of context stuff was the second quarter, the stuff about the game. And I'm not praising anyone. And I'm not becoming hysterical. But digging up stuff from the past that someone has, in fact, publicly apologized for, and explained the circumstances of, and still said they're not happy about the past and want to be a better person, is not justice, just virtue signalling or attention seeking. I'm mad, because having something you said years ago being used to justify real life harm to your livelihood is fucked up. You're not the only one who's been met with fucked up circumstances. Don't make this about yourself.
DeleteBut yeah, if you meant something else, I'm willing to call a ceasefire.
DeleteThis topic just hits close to home, so I get defensive when I see the notifications.
Delete(Sam Different Anon) I did read through the other comments. I think you are seeing them as worse than they really are because you are very upset. I understand Purity is going through it right now because of crazy freaks, but no one here has incited violence or harassment. Just as you're upset, other people are also upset about what's happened, and this announcement was made so that people could discuss it and voice their thoughts.
DeleteYup, and that's what I'm doing too. Just like everyone, I'm arguing so we can bring out our thoughts in a non-confusing way. At least, that's what I'll call it. Anyway, since this brings back painful memories, I'll turn of notifications in a few hours. If you have more to say to me personally, you have until about 2 and a half hours from now.
DeleteAlright, need to go to work early, actually. I wish the best to anyone under this post, I shall return to the normal update posts and stay there for the time being. Sayonara.
DeleteGuess it's a sign of fame when a retarded cancel-crowd starts targeting you. The best thing you can do is ignore them altogether instead of bending the knee. This crowd will never forgive your words (whether they were said in joke or seriously) anyway and you're entitled to having your opinions - as long as you don't start agressively pushing them into your game.
ReplyDeleteCancel-crowd doesn't care about the quality of the game as it cares about whether people working on it are deserve the crowd's approval. Purity Guy has been a great contributor to the development of this game for years now and people who want him gone because of some couple of comments are clearly don't care if his leaving might affect this. So just ignore the retards and continue as you did.
Generally ignoring is best what you can do because nobody will do anything productive but the developer. But in this case haters managed to mess with real life of Purity Guy, that's another level that should be addressed.
DeleteCancel crowd has always been on a whole other level of evil, unfortunately. It still sucks to see nonetheless though.
DeleteSo, the devs create wonderful game, community grows and finally some very small but persistent part of it turns against them like Frankenstein's monster. I guess haters won't stop until any further game developement is ruined. I'm new to the game but already see that it's unique of its kind and I see that tremendous effort was put into it. I wish best luck for the devs with the game as well as with their real life affairs.
ReplyDeleteThat pretty much sums it up. Good luck in this place. It's basically becoming a toxic swamp of attention seekers and hate. I pray you don't join them...
DeletePretty much unfortunately. Thankfully there seems to be a few decent people left. I can only pray we get through this shit storm unaffected.
DeleteNo, actually. People did not "turn on them", they were hurt and affected by Purity's words. A large group of people did not approach this in good faith, but that shouldn't be why you dismiss the valid arguments others made.
DeleteYes, people are concerned with development continuing, but if you seeing a co-dev get called out for past behavior makes you think about the game over the feelings of those are rightfully upset at Purity's usage of a slur and uncomfortable comments, then you lack sympathy for your fellow players. Purity has continuously gotten hate, yes, but you have to acknowledge that he was rightfully called out. People wanted these past screenshots addressed as passionate fans of the game themselves. I think people forget that we, as fans, can and SHOULD hold devs accountable. Some people were being and have been malicious, I am not defending that group in case that wasn't clear. It is just upsetting to see those who were being civil get swept away as "haters" when I've seen a lot be people who have created so much content of the game.
I feel like part of the fandom is made up of kids and adults who don't know how to handle their emotions, that's the worst mix possible for this kind of game.
ReplyDeleteThe more I think about it, the more I think it's part of the problem. There seems to be a clear issue with some being unable to differentiate between friendly banter and harmful slurs. An issue with communication or social skills im guessing.
DeleteMakes me wonder if helicopter parenting, the push for age verification for adult content and similar "protections" are also related to this issue. Leading to more young adults not ready for the real world or the internet, both of which are a hell of a lot darker than most realise. If this is the case, I feel its probably going to get worse over time...
I'm rooting for Vrel. You've worked hard to sort things out. It seems like a good idea to take some time to regroup.
ReplyDeleteThank you for not halting development. I hope better contributors come along.
Despite how rough things have been, I hope you've been doing well, Vrel. Seeing others push through with their passion projects is always captivating and I hope you'll get to achieve your ambitions with the game.
ReplyDeleteTake your time to process things if need be and hopefully things will settle down, even if it seems hard right now.
Different anon, I also hope things settle down in the end. I would hate to see the long term vibe of the community be tainted long-term by this whole thing.
DeleteHonestly, I lost faith in both the community and PurityGuy there a moment, because of the spiraling issues... i mean, the haters were being quite blatant at targeting Purity, but i felt like after seeing some searching they may have been right to act out, if it was true and possibly as severe as they complained of?
ReplyDeleteBut i guess the only thing this proves is one shouldnt ever trust what they read, even if it seems too detailed to ignore... always something off with the narrative, and the motive is never clear.
Fuck the toxic parts of the community, any community. Seen so many games get hit by such people... especially trying to target holim in real life.
... no better than those malicious pranksters that call SWAT on streamers.
That said, i am going to quit even reading the blog comments, seeing as what was once a sanctuary turned out to become ruined when the dregs of the internet slummed in... Oh, i am still playing this game, but i am not going to risk being brainwashed again, like i almost completely was.
Vrel, Purity, Nicer Community People. Stay safe...
Also... i hope the toxic people lingering in the community get their life problems solved so they can mature out of the phase of their lives where they act like shit-nuggets.
(...or barring that impossibility above, hope their consoles, computers, phones, and telephones, and the contents of their wallets, all get destroyed. Why? These people just dont deserve nice things...)
Different Anon. You sound toxic at the end of the post...
Deletei know you mean well by implying they shouldnt be allowed on any electronic media, but be careful not to act like the unbearable wretches. Its a one way ticket to mental de-evolution. A fate worse than death for one's personality.
What a soy boy, grow a pair bro and fuck em all. "Boo-hoo y-you can't say it! I-It's twansphobic a-and w-wacist!" Free speech mfkers, fuck those cancel culture bitches, you don't need to apologize to anyone. You made an amazing game, that's all that matters, don't let some lefties fool you into thinking otherwise. They don't give a damn about the game, they just want drama.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the people behind recent attacks were all for those UK laws which impeded support for the game? They want to destroy the community, to try to end what they dont agree with...
DeleteHypocritical moralists always seem to be part of cults revering giving oneself intentional brain-damaged and trying to destroy things in an idiotic 'holier-than-thou' frenzy with their fellow zealotous mental defective social media junkies.
The poor miserable knuckle-draggers need to be locked in insane asylums, preferably any run like in the 1930's.
Not out of lies of getting potential treatment for their hypocritical insanity, but as genuine deserved punishment.
These same people i mention as deserving to be stuffed in these asylums, would roughly be akin to putting the kind of people that were assholes to genuinely mentally disabled, into the places they subjected such poor souls too in the past. Because lets face it, if they arent moralists, they are ableists, or turn into opposers of anything else that else that gets their undeserved ire. Be fitting punishment to take these meddlers out of society for a change, and let them suffer alone.
Ah yes, “hypocritical moralists”, something that has definitely never been (ironically) applicable to Puri or several other official members. Maybe the game shouldn’t have been bastardized into actively appealing to the pearl-clutchers if Vrel didn’t want them there. Just a thought.
DeleteOr better yet, maybe if he took a chill pill on his own “holier than thou” attitude, people wouldn’t be so obsessed with showing his own contradictions. It’s not like that’s what initially set the DoL Twitter into a frenzy against him several months (if not years) before this happened or anything.
Delete(Him as in puri)
DeleteYou sound like one of those fuckwads i was saying deserve to be locked away... don't worry, i hope you get locked away in an asylum as you deserve soon. Remember, normal mental quirks deserve compassion, but people like you are like cancer that need suffering and removal from all things internet. <3
DeleteBringing politics into this will only worsen the situation. Calm down everyone.
DeleteI wasn’t even siding with the people you are referring to, I was saying the devs made their bed and should lie in it. They have made their own “less problematic than before” intentions with the game’s direction quite clear, either do it right or stop bending the knee at all.
DeleteBut Vrel can’t truly commit either of those things in terms of actions (instead of empty words of false-reassurance), which is why it is a matter of time before he hemorrhages his “modern” fanbase just as bad as he did the initial 8-Chan guys.
My apologies then, other anon. You are right to say that Purity and Vrel should both choose one thing or another, instead of an unstable middle ground.
DeleteStill, i think the devs got the flak they did deserve, but some assholes exist that took things too far, and need humbling...
After all both sides need a bit of hammering the point home on them.
Yes, i am being toxic my own way saying this, buuut... way i see it, everyone is toxic until humbled. it drains off, goes down the pipeline network of the internet, and ends up in another place.
Low key hoping the community gets into hunting Would-Be Doxers. Internet spars are one thing, but to try to get a person fired from their irl job over past things? its hard to afford much these days with growing bills. What goes on the should stay on the web.... its called 'Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory' for a reason.
agreed, Anon. Everything these people touch, they destroy
DeleteVrel said he wants DoL to be a safe place for EVERYONE, so he does not agree with your bigotry. Take your stupid right-wing ideologies somewhere else. Can't believe this place turned into a Trump rally, you're all dumber than rocks trying to make this left vs right.
DeleteAnd because you're all stupid, I do not support the doxxing or the hateful comments being made. If I didn't say that, every idiot would start putting words in my mouth.
hope things are going to a better direction. while one needs to be held accountable for inappropriate or insulting message, doxxing is a big no.
ReplyDeletealso, I'm sorry vrel, but I hope whatever decision you're (and the team) doing after this is done in neutrality, no bias because A is closer to you than B, and so on. it's a recipe for disaster, especially when it comes to managing a community.
that being said, I think some of this were blown out of proportion, for whatever intentions. I know people are concerned, but this game is literally still in development, essentially beta version. as long as it's not literally implemented, anything written as an inaccessible entry, off-hand comments outside qna, and such are not part of the plot set in stone. heck, even something already implemented can be changed and adjusted. what needs to be done is conveying our dissatisfaction properly. ofc, I hope Puri would be more careful with what they're saying in the future since their words weigh more than your average contributors.
what I'm trying to say is, it's valid to get angry and protest at ooc entries that's already implemented, but not so much when it's still in development, or still being reviewed. it's being reviewed for a reason! even those that slipped changes when people points out that there's some ooc-ness in it!
oh well, best of luck to everyone. mad if you need to, be strict if you have to, but stay in the lane and keep it civilized. doing it rabidly, and people will start to lose sympathy. it applies to everyone.
man, bullies are the worst. trying to cancel someone for words they said SIX YEARS AGO is genuinely so so so so stupid. it would be best if these people would just filter themselves out, since the game is so clearly not for them. lots of luck to purityguy and hope he has a good rest!!!!! i really hope those crying tiktok children wont make him hate the game or not wish to work on it anymore. in my opinion, gwylan update is genuinely one of the best we've had in some time! and to lose a good writer because a bunch of newbies cant handle a slightly more sensitive topic would be tragic
ReplyDeleteThe people you describe truly need to suffer similar mistreatment. Have their own words taken out of context, and have their own social groups set against them... be hilarious to see these pathetic morons get their social lives killed by their own! xD
DeleteOnly it wasn't actually just 6 years ago, there are some vile things said that are more recent. That's why some of the people who are in one way or another supporting this game are upset because PurityGuy hasn't been and is still not being completely transparent, and those who knew about this long before and talked to him about it were silenced.
DeleteI will support PurityGuy's decision if he continues his part as a co-dev, but more than his past problematic remarks, his behavior of being inconsistent and his childishness in how he interacts with the community makes us not want to support him with donations anymore until we see him actually act better.
what recent stuff?
DeleteFor the fuck sake. Words are words. N word or stereotypes words should not describe soemones lifes. This is INTERNET. If you are not prepared to hear something awfull stick to forums where people polishing their own ego. Or better doest enter internet at all! If you feel that much offended by words to destroy someones real life, it means you are not grown enough to be in this space.
ReplyDeleteYou are nothing more then just bully who wanted to destroy someones life because your ego cannot handle simple word or two
Hello Vrel,
ReplyDeleteIf it helps, here's some thoughts from a long time player who's entirely removed from this. I don't know the best way to check when I first downloaded, but my oldest file in the folder is a style.css is from July 2019. I only occasionally lurk the blog/discord to see if there's an update or survey. I literally had no idea of this (or any) drama until now.
I first want to make it clear that doxxing & IRL contacting over a *porn game* is fucking insane. Never justified, unless the person did an actual crime.
That said, I will say the "vintage suit" thing is very odd to write and the response in these comments is also kinda weird. Don't know why an opinion on the matter would even be given, in a game like this? We're supposed to masturbate, not think about about the ethics of WW2. Also most of the comments are from a single person doing the standard deflection tactics of "you don't know the context" / "everyone is fucked up" / "people are just being toxic" etc. Other comments are saying it's just "naughty words", "retarded cancel-crowd" and "moral justice"... what is this?
This game grew and thrived during peak-woke (despite the objectionable material) lol, it would be very odd to me if the game was cancelled for that. But I'm also relatively old and don't know what young people are on these days. Based on my younger cousins they are mostly regressing to more gender-norm ideals and stuff, but this doesn't seem about that... so idk lol. wtf.
Final answer/thought: THE INTERNET HAS BECOME CHRONICALLY PARASOCIAL. Y
You name is, people try to abuse it... a person, or a system for gain or out of spite... I thought past decades were bad.
DeleteNeed to teach more humility in today's world... would pop more than a few egos that need to be deflated, lest they become full on narcissists.
(apparently I accidentally clicked / pressed a key-combo to publish... carrying on from the last "Y")
DeleteYou are seeing the effect of this and it fucking sucks. If things don't die down, please consider removing the game from social discourse, outside of maybe a bug report and gameplay feedback forum on discord. The more popular this game gets the worse brigading will get from all sides. Right now, the comments here suggest brigading from "words don't matter, let people be offending types", this will probably reverse in a couple years.
The problem is the "community" has become parasocial to you as a game dev. It's a porn game and people should not give a fuck in either direction!
(apparently I accidentally clicked / pressed a key-combo to publish... carrying on)
ReplyDeleteYou are seeing the effect of this and it fucking sucks. If things don't die down, please consider removing the game from social discourse, outside of maybe a bug report and gameplay feedback forum on discord. The more popular this game gets the worse brigading will get from all sides. Right now, the comments here suggest brigading from "words don't matter, let people be offending types", this will probably reverse in a couple years.
The problem is the "community" has become parasocial to you as a game dev. It's a porn game and people should not give a fuck in either direction!
My apologies Vrel, please delete this and the comment it's replying to. I couldn't edit due to being anonymous. :/
DeleteThis.
Deletealso, i really REALLY hope gwylan is not being nerfed. maybe their interactions with other characters do need to be rewritten a bit, but as it was already stated multiple times, gwylan is an endgame love interest. you cannot, and should not be able to, earn their love in a week of playtime. them being a really strong behind the scenes entity is very interesting, and the fact that, despite your "limited" time with them, they still want to protect you in their own way is so precious! and its not a good idea to cater to casuals anyway, especially when its been established early on that this game is not a simple "click here and win" one (and especially when the latest questionnaire revealed that tons of people play either with chears or on dolp). but anyway, you should do as you see fit. good luck to you, and i hope life is kind to everyone on the development team!;;;
ReplyDeleteI just want to offer some support to you, Vrel.💪
ReplyDeleteThe recent situation has been painful for many people in the community, not only because of the remarks involved, but also because of the escalation and hostility that followed. I fully understand why certain things couldn’t be ignored. At the same time, I’m glad you handled everything carefully instead of feeding the fire.
I truly trust and fully support any decision you make for DoL as long as it comes from your heart and your vision for the game. Thank you for taking responsibility for the community, especially during such stressful days. Please take care of yourself, and thank you for all your hard work.💖
Don’t support people doxxing Puri to get him fired from his actual job.
ReplyDeleteBut I have to say this, I really wish that some of the things said by fans aren’t just “cancelling” a dev.
There were fans who did not feel safe in the community. There were fans who saw what the development of DoL is becoming much different than what was mentioned. There were fans who saw their favorite character treated with disrespect one of the biggest contributor who became a co-dev. There were fans that saw Puri speak about Vrel’s work with disrespect.
Many kept their mouths shut because they want to see the game develop. Many gave Puri benefit of the doubt.
Then some brave fans spoke up wanting to see the game and the community change in a better direction. Which was met with lack of accountability, deflection, and threats of stopping game development (by only one of the dev too)
The current discourse is all that deflection and disrespect boiling over to an uncontrolled state.
p.s. Also not irrelevant of my take above. Those using “free speech” as an excuse for certain slurs please do a quick google search. There are limitations to how it, which is something that many disregard. Free speech is not a term you use to excuse everything someone says.
If you want to use it to excuse everything Puri said in the past, then others criticizing Puri are also using free speech to voice their opinions.
That being said, I repeat that I do not agree with people doxxing Puri. That was an unfair retaliation to his actions.
Hey so if you don’t feel safe in a community, then just leave for fucks sake.
DeleteAll people like you do is ruin shit for everyone else. And yes what you’re doing is ABSOLUTELY “cancelling”.
Respectfully, grow the fuck up and get a life.
“There were fans who did not feel safe in the community.”
DeleteThen leave. Genuinely, why tf would you stick around in a community where you didn’t feel safe if not because you’re some kind of self righteous “holier than thou” moral pariah?
“There were fans who saw what the development of DoL is becoming much different than what was mentioned.”
Yeah… because it’s a game in development, which obviously means there are gonna be a LOT of changes…
“There were fans who saw their favorite character treated with disrespect one of the biggest contributor who became a co-dev.”
It’s almost like you people don’t realize that this character in particular (we all know who you’re talking about btw) is PURI’S OWN CHARACTER!!! Meaning he’s on charge and has full control. Y’all have no right to say he’s making the character OC or doing them injustice bc it’s literally his character so stfu.
Also has it ever fucking got through that thick ass numb skull of yours that this is a game that REVOLVES around the idea of being abused??? OF COURSE CHARACTERS ARE GONNA BE TREATED W DISRESPECT THATS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT YOU IDIOT FUCKTARD!!!
Not wanting Racist, Sexist, Lesbophobic, Transphobic comments nee "jokes" from staff makes one a 'moral pariah' apparently, everyone should pack their bags for this edgelord. And Vrel literally says this is supposed to be a safe spot to explore dark sexuality. Not bigotry. So you're going against Vrel and the spirit (and rules) of the game here by being all 4channer.
DeleteCalm down.
DeleteHi the first Anonymous!
DeleteI just want to say I support you and your perspective, and I really respect how you shared your thoughts without attacking anyone.
It’s disheartening to see others attacking you unfairly. Thank you for speaking up.
You said it yourself: It’s a safe space to explore dark content without real life implications. And that goes for anything. If you don’t feel comfortable with content like that, then you really ought to just leave. Again, this is supposed to be a SAFE SPACE FOR DARK TOPICS!!! And by censoring speech, all of you are actively destroying that safe space.
DeleteYou can’t seriously be this ignorant can you? It’s a dark 18+ game that literally FETISHIZES ABUSE - OF COURSE there’s gonna be stuff like that ffs. Why would you go into a community for a game that revolves around rape, abuse, and violations of human rights expecting to find a fluffy chat where they talk about rainbows and unicorns?
DeleteIt's quite obvious who you are. Seriously just stop responding. Vrel and Purityguy already apologized and clarified things. You're clearly not in the best state of mind at the moment and you're just making things worse for the people who are in Dolcord. Seriously, just stop.
DeleteRespectfully, I don't give a fuck about the people in Discord. Discord is a breeding ground for degenerates so I'm afraid I'm quite unaware of whatever is going on there. Not that I can really be bothered to care given how these kinds of situations tend to go.
DeleteWe should let the scandal die down. Calm down, recollect our wits, let Purity atone in temporary exile and let him fix his life, let Vrel and other devs fix the mess caused by recent updates, and definitely weed out the doxxers and rape them with banhammers, abd get the community back in order.
ReplyDeleteForst order of business... could we leave the Blogspot alone? bringing things from discord, onto here, might have got attention to issues, but frankly its beating a dead horse now that all has been said and reflected on.
Also, dont go naysaying until some more tome goes by, and you have validity for your doubts....
... and for pity's sake, stop feeding the friggin' trolls!
i'm just gonna say, games like dol relies on contributors and donations to keep running, and regardless of what people think of the situation, what the community says does matter because it is the backbone of this game. no matter how good the future updates are it's pointless if its audience gradually leave one by one.
ReplyDeletei only hope the best for the game and everyone moving forward, but i also hope this never happens again and we all truly learn from it instead of just being dismissive and hateful. i'll continue donating regularly to vrel and those behind dolmods, but as someone else mentioned here i'll also wait to see if purityguy improves before ever supporting them again.
Exactly. I'm honestly perplexed by some of the people implying that those who are criticizing the devs and contributors are just acting morally superior (Doxxing is obviously a separate case). Community engagement keeps these types of game alive, of course those part of it will care if they're support is going to the right people, whether that support involves money or not.
DeleteVrel himself also already reiterated that he wants DoL to be a safe place for everyone, not just for those working on the game so I hope some people here would also stop attacking other people for expressing very valid opinions.
I agree with anon #2 for the most part, but I will say that a lot of this community engagement and feedback isn't constructive criticism targeted towards the game. A lot of it is extremely hateful in nature and fuelled by people who want to believe that they're some kind of righteous heroes.
DeleteAs for the support thing, that goes two ways.
I wish the devs all the best. I hope you will still be able to find joy in working on the project that brings happiness and comfort to many players. Your contribution was, is and will be invaluable.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad to know you're finally taking a more active role in moderation Vrel. I've been one of those disappointed with how poorly you've handled certain things before but seeing your openness to valid criticisms is highly appreciated. I only wish the best for both the people behind the scenes and those who are part of the community.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your hard work, PurityGuy !
ReplyDeleteI hope you have good luck in the future.
I hope this game isn't dead. I love it very much.
ReplyDeleteI do hope you seriously improve your management of the game and its community, and I will support it unto the ends of the earth if you can take the lead and forge it into the game we all know it can be.
Thanks for the work, Puri, it should not have ended like this. :(
I hope everything gets better from now on. I personally don't agree with how Puri has been behaving but people have gone overboard in trying to "punish" him, I think it'll be good for both him and the community for him to take a break.
ReplyDeleteI also hope that you, personally, are doing fine, Vrel, it must have not been easy to deal with all of this, especially when you aren't used to so much public spotlight. I am glad you will not be stepping down, DoL wouldn't be at all the same without you. Me and all the other fans will keep supporting you as much as we can c:
Just once I would like a safe place safe from the safeplace crowd
ReplyDeleteHang in there Mr. Vrelnir
ReplyDeletebe healthy and strong, I play since before Alex farm overhaul, idk how long that was
But first time typing here.
It seem like a management and communication problem you dealing with. You should delay next game update, work on community problem first. That more important. Yes.
Contacting real life employers over shit that people say online should be a punishable offense. Unless someone is using the company x account to scream the n word then what happens online should have strictly online consequences. Repentance, cancelation, and isolation from the online community seems more than punishment enough for something as innocuous as "this fictional character hates a specific ethno group," or "WW2 was actually shitty for everyone involved."
ReplyDeleteI think the DoL Discord should just be deleted tbh. Nothing good ever comes of fan communities on there, from what I’ve experienced.
ReplyDeleteDiscord has led to the downfall of so many fan communities. It's always Discord.
DeleteAgreed. I don't know what it is, but Discord really brings out the worst in people, unfortunately.
DeleteDamn, so Purity Guy was not so pure. Jokes aside, people change. I too was a polar opposite to what I am today, and although I never hurt anyone (since I've always kept to myself), I was a piece of shit.
ReplyDeleteDoL is an extremely difficult game to create since it tackles the sensitive themes it does, so things like this happening were a given. I hope the game can keep being a way for people to understand and empathize with others in vulnerable positions.
Unrelated, but preg content when?
The doxxing is incredibly bad, out of reason, and could have taken a turn for dangerous. That's not how anyone, fans or not, should ever react.
ReplyDeletePurity, hopefully, will be fine. However, his behavior is still needing to be meant with real, seen, change. The game itself may be dark in aspects of sex, religion, and cult mechanics, but that is not an excuse for the harmful behavior he displayed, especially as a Co-Dev with so much reach in a public community server. The racism, transphobic, and other things said IS direct reflection on the server and the game as a whole, even if it might only be in the discord. It breeds more bigots that will speak freely, and insult minorities without care because they'll see those they're speaking over as "overly sensitive" to a few "jokes", leaving large portions of the community to be stepped on.
It is not sensitive to say that spreading bigoty shouldn't be done, and it shouldn't be that hard to take a moment to realize when you or friends are crossing a line. The internet is wide, and you can freely learn what minorities go through, how they're targeted for hate crimes, some ending in murder.
And there's no "exploring" dark content when the dark content in question is just a bunch of bigot comments and jokes from a dev/devs.
I am glad Purity is taking a step back, for his safety, but also I hope he looks into learning more history on minorities to actually better himself to not repeat mistakes, and to show real change to the people he's talking to with such a large reach. Many people who ARE parasocial with him currently. They aren't his responsibility by default, no one asks for parasocial people, but what he does and says does greatly affect them, and how they are willing to defend bad behavior at the drop of a hat as long as it's him, their favorite person.
And Vrel, good luck as well. You haven't been the best with communications, and that of course has caused a lot of issues for such a big project like this. I really do hope you as well can do better in the future. It's still your game at the end of the day, but it's far too big to not have proper communications, or even a updated document on things that should be run, or done.
Take care of yourself. May the future look more bright.
I mean, that's kinda the whole point though, is it not? As someone in several minority groups (female, bi, neurodivergent), one of the main reasons I come play this game is because its a safe space for me to explore content that could otherwise be very emotionally damaging irl.
DeleteLike, I obviously don't want to be called a "slut" or other sexist remarks irl, and I certainly don't wish to go through the suffering and abuse the characters in-game do. But fictionally, it's a major turn on. People have always been drawn to the forbidden and taboo, and they will continue to be.
You wouldn't go after someone who enjoys watching horror movies because they're "glorifying serial killers and violence" would you? Nor would you go after the director of a horror movie because "murder is unacceptable" because we all realize it's not socially or morally acceptable in real life. I think the same applies here. We poke fun at minorities or social issues online because it's funny, and also somewhat therapeutic when done in a proper place.
That's not to say that I necessarily disagree with you! I think you have a point when you say that there should be more moderation to keep discussion focused solely on the game (as that's what we're all here for) and there certainly are people who are genuinely spreading bigotry with malicious intents, but for the most part, I don't think that's the case here. I also think that as soon as you begin to tamper with free speech, things start to go downhill very, very fast.
What exactly happened? From what I've seen, Purity just has an edgy sense of humor. Some of the screenshots had me internally cringing, but nothing seemed hateful or bigoted to me? I heard that people were being discriminated against and banned, but I haven't seen any evidence. I'm not sure what's true and what's made up.
ReplyDeleteDowngrading bigot jokes to "edgy humor" isn't exactly good. It's usually just a white person thinking mindset to say they have edgy humor when the humor is using the N word, and oddly racist jokes. He's said the N word in 2019, along with claiming it's not a racial slur. And something about Kylar being racist toward Chinese. There's a tumblr post with some screenshots, and there's more issues on Twitter, which is another whole can of worms. Along with at least two ex-devs speaking up about their time on the team on reddit, granted they aren't deleted yet. ( https://www.tumblr.com/succubunnydee/800476859772059648/the-greatest-hits-screenshot-collection-is-at-the / https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gz3Ri2obAAASJ8T )
DeleteIt's edgy humor to me. I've dealt with racism before, and from what I've seen, that ain't it. Maybe there's more shit that I haven't seen, but it seems like the jokes were purely for shock value or to be stupid. He didn't dehumanize, target, discriminate, or disparage anyone specifically. If he made the same jokes about my race, I wouldn't have taken it seriously. I'd just rolled my eyes and moved on.
Deletetwitterfags are on a mission to ensure a random stranger adheres to their standards. I don't know how they handle real life where there's no moderation
Deletewe know that's you puri
DeleteAll of the LIs are canonically terrible people, so I'm not really sure why you're so hung up on the fact that Kylar is racist when he also literally rapes, kidnaps, and abuses the player + assaults random people?
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ReplyDeleteI feel like a lot of the fans and “official” announcements alike have just sorta ignored the larger context here, and focus only on what Puri in particular is saying in the screenshots.
ReplyDeleteWhat about what Devil said in those same screenshots, considering that recent leak showed us they are still involved in the dev-chats despite claiming to step down. What about your horrendous response to the sexual harassment incident? Why was Puri allowed to say such things and have the messages kept up undeleted by whoever was moderating at the time (since Puri himself clearly wasn’t)? Puri claiming he in particular has changed doesn’t fix the fact that other non-staff are STILL being allowed to say such things in the server scot-free!
You and Puri pay lip-service to idea issues are happening in the DoLcord, but no real specifics have been addressed, all we’ve really got as a solution is “Vrel will be involved now”, which I’m not sure solves things on its own given how passive you have proven yourself to be even when you are involved.
All I’m asking is that his isn’t the fully extent of the announcements we are getting. What we have so far is good, but many things have not been addressed still.
Your and Puri’s announcements both admitted “a lot is happening” and that it isn’t just the Puri “edgy racism” screenshots, so why is that the only thing we seem to be getting a detailed answer for?
DeleteDon’t get me wrong, the Puri stuff needed to be addressed immediately given the irl job thing and overall harassment. It NEEDED to be brought up first. I just hope it being so blown out of proportion by those people is indeed just the reason to bring it up first, rather than the excuse to not bring up other issues that have very much contributed to the overall vitriol happening this month.
DeleteYou're being kinda bullied in the official discord server, aren't you
ReplyDeleteIf Vrel really wants DoL to be a safe space, I wish he would also remove the comments from these right-wing folks who are calling people soft and just spreading even more bigotry. I saw some comments from people already got removed, but these horrible ones are still up.
ReplyDeleteif that is to be the case, it should be started with your bigoted comment against those who you label "right-wing folks". Most are a bigot in some way, partial with groups they favour and those they do not, including yourself. Just because your against some group of people, doesn't stop their beliefs from being valid, just as your own beliefs are valid.
DeleteYou do realize that by publishing this comment, you too are spreading even more bigotry, yes?
DeleteWell im sorry that im human
DeleteOn a more positive note, I'm excited there's more content to come for Avery!
ReplyDeleteFinally something good
DeleteGuys, we are all adults, let's start acting like it. If you have concerns, then voice them productively. If you disagree with someone, don't start hurling childish insults at them; it solves nothing and hurts any point you were trying to make in the first place. Likewise, if something triggers you, then it's your responsibility to remove yourself from the situation. Again, we are adults. We shouldn't need to be coddled for every little thing. We should be able to mediate ourselves as adults.
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ReplyDeleteI feel like saying anything here isn't going to matter especially since I sincerely believe the comments on this post should be taken with a grain of salt, if not disregarded entirely, but I'm saying it anyways.
Speaking as someone who never joined the DOL discord for a few reasons, the biggest of which being that I was worried it'd largely contain the same sort of bigotry and vitriol we're seeing now, (not because I suspected Vrelnir or anyone contributing to the project would be like that, something like this just unfortunately attracts some odd and abrasive people for whatever reason) I don't think PurityGuy is irredeemable. I also don't think it's bad that he's responding to awful past behavior and owning up to it. I /also/ also think doxxing and trying to get him fired from his job is fucking ridiculous. I hope this vaguely nuanced viewpoint is the consensus and the people shouting about how PG is based and owning the woke libtards or whatever-the-fuck when the guy's literally apologizing and owning up to it, taking a break to try to work things out, and the people practically calling for his blood.
I don't mean to disregard his past remarks or pull some both-sides nonsense, they are abhorrent and some are concerningly recent, but I also fully understand just how foul the "4chan-like" atmosphere can be and how bad it rots people's minds, and also how much somebody can change in just a few years. I think taking a break is the best thing PG can do, and as much as I hope he returns to working on DoL someday I really can't blame him if he never does, working as a volunteer on a game while two very loud and toxic groups of people are trying to destroy your livelihood or treat you like some sort of martyr that supports their bigotry would be fucking awful.
Just realized I forgot to include "are the vocal minority" at the end of the second paragraph.
DeleteHonestly, all of this makes me sad. DOL is my favorite game so far, and seeing people trying to hurt each other in the comments breaks my heart. After all, we're all human and we should support each other. I firmly believe that no one wishes bad things on people they don't even know. Perhaps our beliefs differ, but that shouldn't stop us from being kind to each others.
ReplyDeleteI sincerely hope Purity gets the rest he deserve, and I also hope Vrel receives more humane treatment. I don't think it's easy being in their shoes right now.
Thank you all for your hard work on this project, I do really appreciate it <3
I really hope things can recover, I don’t just mean the Puri thing, ALL of this recent stuff. I have reason to believe it still isn’t impossible, but looking at the comments here and the twitter feels bleak right now.
ReplyDeleteI want nothing more than to feel how I felt about everything 3 months ago, I would hate to see this burn like other projects have before, especially games of this type.
This must be even rougher for everyone involved, please hang in there, and please do the right thing.
1. I found Puri said "It's a happy day when Vrel personally requests that I write something." around 19DEC2024 in DC chat, is that the something meaning Gwylan?
ReplyDelete2.Are you afraid that you don't ask Puri write anything so Puri will be angry?
3.Do Puri let you review his writing?
4.Did his work need to be adjusted before publishing?
5.Are you afraid that you tell Puri his work need to be adjusted?
6.Did you answer "some scenes need to be adjusted" in blog because of afraid?
7.Do you know how different of "I agree Gwylan are more assertive and aggressive in the new content" and "I want Gwylan are more assertive and aggressive in the new content"?
8."I agree" sounds "assertive and aggressive is objective facts, I don't admit I Iike it or want it", and the following "I like the awkward, friendly forest shopkeeper too" is a contrast. Do you agree?
9.Do you know you told it to any player is enough to destroy all the trust for Puri being a co-dev?
10.If you never used to have contributors, why you let Puri become co-dev?
11.why you let Puri write Ivory Wraith for you? Asked his write Gwylan for you?
12.I am a outsider I read the concersation and my heart broken, wake in shaking, how hard is Puri feeling as he is the one being betrayed and threatened by haters that have your sympathy?
Strawberry
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